designboom.com之藤本壮介访谈 / 翻译：Bozen Tang
what is the best moment of the day?
morning, I'd say, except when it rains (laughs).
I usually wake up early rather than late, and mornings
are very precious for me. I like the beginning of everything.
the morning is the beginning of a day and I like to think of
it as the beginning of architecture.
一天中最好的时光？
我觉得早晨，尤其当下雨时。
我常常早起，早晨的时光对我来说很宝贵。我喜欢一切事物的开始阶段。早晨是一天的开始，而我常常把它当作是建筑的开始。
what kind of music do you listen to at the moment?
I like bach and piano music. in my younger days I loved
the beatles and bob dylan, but recently I like to listen to
classical music.
这个时候你会听哪种音乐？
我喜欢巴赫和钢琴曲。早些年的时候我喜欢披头士和鲍勃迪伦，最近喜欢古典乐了。
do you listen to the radio?
no.
I just listen to cd's.
听广播？
不。
只听CD。
what books do you have on your bedside table?
one of my favorite books is written by toro takemitsu.
he is a great japanese contemporary music composer and
at the same time he's a very good writer. his words about
music, about the japanese culture, about the world inspire
me.
你的枕边书？
武满彻先生的一本书我很喜欢，他是伟大的当代日本作曲家，同时写作也很好。他的一些关于音乐，日本文化以及世界的话语常常对我有启发。
do you read design / architecture magazines?
I don't read them in detail, I just take a look.
mostly japanese but also international magazines.
recently my studio subscribed to domus, architectural
review and architectural record.
看设计/建筑杂志吗？
不细看，只是翻翻，而且大部分是日本杂志，也有国外的。最近我的事务所订了domus，architectural review和architectural record。
where do you get news from?
the internet.
从什么渠道获取最新信息？
网络。
I assume you notice how women dress.
do you have any preferences?
I like clothes by issey miyake.
that's not limited to women, I like his thinking of how to
create clothing.a while ago there was a magazine I looked
at that had images of women in africa wearing issey
miyake's dresses. it was an amazing photo report.
I was very surprised about how the dresses, colors and
their living style blend so well together.
若你对女人的服装有注意，会对哪些方面感兴趣？
我喜欢三宅一生。不仅限于女人，我喜欢他的关于如何做衣服的思考。先前有本杂志登了些穿着三宅一生的服装的非洲妇女的照片，这是个很惊艳的photo report，当地人的生活方式竟能与三宅的服装、颜色如此完美地融合，让我很惊讶。
what kind of clothes do you avoid wearing?
complicated suits.
I see clothing as a kind of second nature.
会避免穿什么样的衣服？
太复杂的。
我把衣服看作是人的第二本性。
do you have any pets?
not for now.
养宠物吗？
现在不了。
when you were a child, did you want to become a
architect?
I grew up in hokkaido, in the northern part of japan,
surrounded by nature and I enjoyed just playing in the
forest. I didn't think about any future of mine.
my hero was albert einstein, so originally I wanted to be a
physicist like him, I was interested in the physical aspects of
our world. now I find many similarities in the research and
practice in both fields, architecture and physics. my first
experience with architecture was with antonio gaudi
(through reading a book about him).
从小就像当建筑师吗？
我在日本北边的北海道长大，那里自然风光环绕，我很享受在森林里玩耍的时光，从没想过未来会怎样。那时我的偶像是爱因斯坦，所以原先我是想成为像他那样的物理学家。我很感兴趣世界物质的一面。而现在我发现，建筑与物理这两个领域在研究，实践方面都有很大的相似性。我最初的关于建筑的体验与高迪有关（看了一本关于他的书）。
where do you work on your designs and projects?
mainly in the office because my work is not only done by me.
I collaborate with my staff through discussions and models,
but when I want to focus on something I prefer to be alone.
in that case I work at home or in a starbucks cafe.
在哪工作？
主要在工作室。因为我的作品需要多人协作。我会通过讨论，做模型来与员工合作。但当我想集中精神的时候会更愿意一个人呆着，这时我会选择在家里或是在星巴克工作。
do you discuss your work with other architects?
sometimes. for example with toyo ito and kazuyo sejima, ...
but we don't discuss, we chat.
会与其他建筑师讨论自己的作品吗？
有时会。比如像伊东，妹岛...但我们不会讨论，只是在聊天。
describe your style, like a good friend of yours would
describe it.
I call it 'primitive future'.
a sort of primitive situation that relates to the human 'cave'
habitation but at the same time I like to create something
new for the future.
I recently gave a lecture 'cave or nest', the two embryonic
states of architecture.
a 'nest' is a place for people that is very well prepared,
everything is assembled and very functional, meanwhile
the 'cave' is just a raw space, which people need to explore
and find their own comfort within. this is a situation where
people can use space creatively.
I prefer something like the cave-like-unintentional space.
something that is in between nature and artifact - formless
form.
描述下自己。
我想会是“原初的未来”，与人类洞穴居住环境有关的一种原始的状态，在这基础上我想为未来创造出更新的东西。
最近做了个讲座“洞穴，或者巢”，两种不同建筑生长的原始胚胎状态。“巢”是一切已经被布置好了的地方，所有事物都被装配好而且功能化，而“洞穴”只是一个处于混沌状态的空间，在里头人们需要去寻找，探索他们自己舒适的方式，这是一个人们可以创造性地去使用空间的环境。
我偏爱有点像洞穴一样的无意识空间，一些存在与自然与人造物之间的无定形的形式。
formless form?
space is relationships and architecture generates various
senses of distances.
I'm very optimistic and see architecture as something
between living together and independently. there are many
degrees of interaction amongst people.
to construct a wall is to bisect a space into 0 and 1, however
a space must have intrinsically many graduations between
0 and 1. I like to create an in-between-space, therefore my
works are very basic (I've designed architecture that is
very simple but looks complex due to its geometric form).
无定形的形式？
空间是一种关系。建筑产生多方面的距离感。
我很乐于看到建筑作为某种介乎公共与私密之间的场所存在，里面人与人之间可以有多层次的交互。建造一堵墙犹如把空间分成0和1，然而空间本质上在0与1之间是存在着许多灰色阶层的，我想要创造出属于中间层的空间，因此我的作品都是很基本的（我有一个项目，原理很简单但看起来很复杂，原因在于其几何构成）。
please describe an evolution in your work, from your
first projects to the present day
the projects are becoming bigger because I get the chance to
do more prestigious work, but I don't want to limit myself just
to expensive things. sometimes with private projects that are
low-budget I have more possibilities.
描述下你的演变过程，从第一个项目到现在
项目越来越大，因为我有机会去做更多更高调的作品，但对于这种大项目我不愿意限制住自己。有时一些预算很少的私活对我而言会有更多的可能性。
what project has given you the most satisfaction?
there are two low-budget projects that I have just recently
finished.one is named house N which is a very simple box
house. an outdoor space that feels like the indoors and an
indoor space that feels like the outdoors. I think we were
successful in creating a space between the house and
city. my ideal is architecture too be roofless and garden-like.
the other project is called 'final wooden house'.
we stacked wooden blocks together to create a very small
house, in which there are no categorization of floors, walls,
and ceilings.because floor levels are relative people
reinterpret the spatiality according to where they are. it was
a big challenge for us, as we needed to consider if there
was enough space for people (laughs).
最满意那件作品？
刚刚完工的两个小活，预算很低。一个是house N，很简单的一个方盒子，室外的空间感觉像室内的，室内的空间感觉像室外的。我想我们很成功地创造了一个介乎房子与城市的空间。我的想法是房子像没有屋顶的，花园一样的。还有一个是“终极木屋”，我们把木条堆积在一起产生一个小房子，里边没有地板、墙、天花板的划分，因为人们会根据自己在里面的位置去重新诠释空间。这个项目对于我们来说是个很大的挑战，因为我们也不知道里面是否有足够的空间去容纳人（哈哈）。
did you modify your buildings a lot during development,
because the client wanted something different?
I like to answer to the clients request as much as possible,
but I do not see it as compromises. I react with a more
creative development. of course clients always have an idea
of what they want and some site specific concerns but at
the same time they like to have something unexpected or
something beyond their imagination. many clients want a
new lifestyle through a new style of house. I propose
something beyond their request and if they like the idea,
the project will start. if they don't like the project at all it will
stop.fortunately our idea, our scheme is a flexible one.
the basic scheme is very strong but it can adapt while still
remaining strong.
由于客户的原因，你会不会去反复修改你的设计？
我会去尽量满足客户的需求，但这不意味着妥协。我对有创造性的推进更感冒。当然了客户对他想要的，以及细节方面的敲定总是会有自己的想法，但同时他们也会想要一些期待以外的，超越他们所能想到的新东西。许多客户想通过一个新类型的房子来获取一种新的生活方式。如果他们喜欢的话，我会给出一些超越他们需求的提议，这样项目就可以开始了。如果他们不喜欢的话，那就终止。幸运的是，我们的想法，我们的方案是很灵活能变通的。最初的方案很有冲击力，但也能做到适应（客户）而同时保持很强的冲击力。
who would you like to design something for?
an art museum or some kind of museum would be very
interesting for me, or an art gallery and a photo studio.
I like to design medical facilities. in 2006 I have worked for
a mental hospital,developing the children's center for
psychic rehabilitation.right now we are designing a library.
你想为谁做设计？
我很感兴趣艺术博物馆或者别的些博物馆，或者画廊，摄影工作室。我喜欢设计医疗设施之类的，06年我给一个精神病医院的儿童精神康复中心做过设计，现在我们在设计一个图书馆。
is there any architect from the past, you appreciate a lot?
louis kahn, le corbusier, mies van der rohe...
and of course michelangelo.
I also like the architecture designed by nobody, for example
gothic cathedrals.
以前的建筑师中有没有谁是你很喜欢的
康，柯布，密斯...当然还有米开朗基罗。
我也很喜欢无名氏设计的建筑，像哥特教堂。
and those still working / contemporary architects?
I love frank gehry because his architecture is like a second
nature,like a jungle. something beyond artificial things,
it's amazing.
还活跃着的建筑师呢？
盖里，因为他的建筑就像是第二自然，犹如丛林，超越了人造物，很让人惊叹。
what advice would you give to the young?
I'm still a young architect.
so yeah um...
enjoying things is very important.
对于年轻人有没有建议？
我也还是个年轻建筑师，所以...嗯，享受乐趣是很重要的。
what are you afraid of regarding the future?
I think I we have to be very serious about the change
in climate and the situation of nature. I think that it is a
great opportunity for us to rethink about
the modern age culture of controlling everything.
we have to change that kind of whole super controlling
situation.for example air conditioning - when we use it we
close and shut out nature and we are limited in the space
we have. the artificial machine of the air conditioning is
controlling our space and separating each other.
instead we might be able to live together and use a kind of
natural power to create a more comfortable space.humans
should adapt a bit more, rather than control.
对于未来会有什么担心的吗
我想我们会很认真的对待气候异常和自然问题。我想对于我们来说这是个很好的时机去反思“掌控自然”之类的现代主义文明。我们不要再抱着想掌控一切的想法了。比方说空调，当我们在使用空调时，我们会关上门窗，与自然隔离开来，却被限制在自己的空间里。空调控制了我们与这个空间，并且（把空间）一个个都相互分裂开来。相反地，我们应该要生活在一个天空下，使用自然的力量去创造更为舒适的空间。相比掌控一切，人类更要应该学会的是适应。
morning, I'd say, except when it rains (laughs).
I usually wake up early rather than late, and mornings
are very precious for me. I like the beginning of everything.
the morning is the beginning of a day and I like to think of
it as the beginning of architecture.
一天中最好的时光？
我觉得早晨，尤其当下雨时。
我常常早起，早晨的时光对我来说很宝贵。我喜欢一切事物的开始阶段。早晨是一天的开始，而我常常把它当作是建筑的开始。
what kind of music do you listen to at the moment?
I like bach and piano music. in my younger days I loved
the beatles and bob dylan, but recently I like to listen to
classical music.
这个时候你会听哪种音乐？
我喜欢巴赫和钢琴曲。早些年的时候我喜欢披头士和鲍勃迪伦，最近喜欢古典乐了。
do you listen to the radio?
no.
I just listen to cd's.
听广播？
不。
只听CD。
what books do you have on your bedside table?
one of my favorite books is written by toro takemitsu.
he is a great japanese contemporary music composer and
at the same time he's a very good writer. his words about
music, about the japanese culture, about the world inspire
me.
你的枕边书？
武满彻先生的一本书我很喜欢，他是伟大的当代日本作曲家，同时写作也很好。他的一些关于音乐，日本文化以及世界的话语常常对我有启发。
do you read design / architecture magazines?
I don't read them in detail, I just take a look.
mostly japanese but also international magazines.
recently my studio subscribed to domus, architectural
review and architectural record.
看设计/建筑杂志吗？
不细看，只是翻翻，而且大部分是日本杂志，也有国外的。最近我的事务所订了domus，architectural review和architectural record。
where do you get news from?
the internet.
从什么渠道获取最新信息？
网络。
I assume you notice how women dress.
do you have any preferences?
I like clothes by issey miyake.
that's not limited to women, I like his thinking of how to
create clothing.a while ago there was a magazine I looked
at that had images of women in africa wearing issey
miyake's dresses. it was an amazing photo report.
I was very surprised about how the dresses, colors and
their living style blend so well together.
若你对女人的服装有注意，会对哪些方面感兴趣？
我喜欢三宅一生。不仅限于女人，我喜欢他的关于如何做衣服的思考。先前有本杂志登了些穿着三宅一生的服装的非洲妇女的照片，这是个很惊艳的photo report，当地人的生活方式竟能与三宅的服装、颜色如此完美地融合，让我很惊讶。
what kind of clothes do you avoid wearing?
complicated suits.
I see clothing as a kind of second nature.
会避免穿什么样的衣服？
太复杂的。
我把衣服看作是人的第二本性。
do you have any pets?
not for now.
养宠物吗？
现在不了。
when you were a child, did you want to become a
architect?
I grew up in hokkaido, in the northern part of japan,
surrounded by nature and I enjoyed just playing in the
forest. I didn't think about any future of mine.
my hero was albert einstein, so originally I wanted to be a
physicist like him, I was interested in the physical aspects of
our world. now I find many similarities in the research and
practice in both fields, architecture and physics. my first
experience with architecture was with antonio gaudi
(through reading a book about him).
从小就像当建筑师吗？
我在日本北边的北海道长大，那里自然风光环绕，我很享受在森林里玩耍的时光，从没想过未来会怎样。那时我的偶像是爱因斯坦，所以原先我是想成为像他那样的物理学家。我很感兴趣世界物质的一面。而现在我发现，建筑与物理这两个领域在研究，实践方面都有很大的相似性。我最初的关于建筑的体验与高迪有关（看了一本关于他的书）。
where do you work on your designs and projects?
mainly in the office because my work is not only done by me.
I collaborate with my staff through discussions and models,
but when I want to focus on something I prefer to be alone.
in that case I work at home or in a starbucks cafe.
在哪工作？
主要在工作室。因为我的作品需要多人协作。我会通过讨论，做模型来与员工合作。但当我想集中精神的时候会更愿意一个人呆着，这时我会选择在家里或是在星巴克工作。
do you discuss your work with other architects?
sometimes. for example with toyo ito and kazuyo sejima, ...
but we don't discuss, we chat.
会与其他建筑师讨论自己的作品吗？
有时会。比如像伊东，妹岛...但我们不会讨论，只是在聊天。
describe your style, like a good friend of yours would
describe it.
I call it 'primitive future'.
a sort of primitive situation that relates to the human 'cave'
habitation but at the same time I like to create something
new for the future.
I recently gave a lecture 'cave or nest', the two embryonic
states of architecture.
a 'nest' is a place for people that is very well prepared,
everything is assembled and very functional, meanwhile
the 'cave' is just a raw space, which people need to explore
and find their own comfort within. this is a situation where
people can use space creatively.
I prefer something like the cave-like-unintentional space.
something that is in between nature and artifact - formless
form.
描述下自己。
我想会是“原初的未来”，与人类洞穴居住环境有关的一种原始的状态，在这基础上我想为未来创造出更新的东西。
最近做了个讲座“洞穴，或者巢”，两种不同建筑生长的原始胚胎状态。“巢”是一切已经被布置好了的地方，所有事物都被装配好而且功能化，而“洞穴”只是一个处于混沌状态的空间，在里头人们需要去寻找，探索他们自己舒适的方式，这是一个人们可以创造性地去使用空间的环境。
我偏爱有点像洞穴一样的无意识空间，一些存在与自然与人造物之间的无定形的形式。
formless form?
space is relationships and architecture generates various
senses of distances.
I'm very optimistic and see architecture as something
between living together and independently. there are many
degrees of interaction amongst people.
to construct a wall is to bisect a space into 0 and 1, however
a space must have intrinsically many graduations between
0 and 1. I like to create an in-between-space, therefore my
works are very basic (I've designed architecture that is
very simple but looks complex due to its geometric form).
无定形的形式？
空间是一种关系。建筑产生多方面的距离感。
我很乐于看到建筑作为某种介乎公共与私密之间的场所存在，里面人与人之间可以有多层次的交互。建造一堵墙犹如把空间分成0和1，然而空间本质上在0与1之间是存在着许多灰色阶层的，我想要创造出属于中间层的空间，因此我的作品都是很基本的（我有一个项目，原理很简单但看起来很复杂，原因在于其几何构成）。
please describe an evolution in your work, from your
first projects to the present day
the projects are becoming bigger because I get the chance to
do more prestigious work, but I don't want to limit myself just
to expensive things. sometimes with private projects that are
low-budget I have more possibilities.
描述下你的演变过程，从第一个项目到现在
项目越来越大，因为我有机会去做更多更高调的作品，但对于这种大项目我不愿意限制住自己。有时一些预算很少的私活对我而言会有更多的可能性。
what project has given you the most satisfaction?
there are two low-budget projects that I have just recently
finished.one is named house N which is a very simple box
house. an outdoor space that feels like the indoors and an
indoor space that feels like the outdoors. I think we were
successful in creating a space between the house and
city. my ideal is architecture too be roofless and garden-like.
the other project is called 'final wooden house'.
we stacked wooden blocks together to create a very small
house, in which there are no categorization of floors, walls,
and ceilings.because floor levels are relative people
reinterpret the spatiality according to where they are. it was
a big challenge for us, as we needed to consider if there
was enough space for people (laughs).
最满意那件作品？
刚刚完工的两个小活，预算很低。一个是house N，很简单的一个方盒子，室外的空间感觉像室内的，室内的空间感觉像室外的。我想我们很成功地创造了一个介乎房子与城市的空间。我的想法是房子像没有屋顶的，花园一样的。还有一个是“终极木屋”，我们把木条堆积在一起产生一个小房子，里边没有地板、墙、天花板的划分，因为人们会根据自己在里面的位置去重新诠释空间。这个项目对于我们来说是个很大的挑战，因为我们也不知道里面是否有足够的空间去容纳人（哈哈）。
did you modify your buildings a lot during development,
because the client wanted something different?
I like to answer to the clients request as much as possible,
but I do not see it as compromises. I react with a more
creative development. of course clients always have an idea
of what they want and some site specific concerns but at
the same time they like to have something unexpected or
something beyond their imagination. many clients want a
new lifestyle through a new style of house. I propose
something beyond their request and if they like the idea,
the project will start. if they don't like the project at all it will
stop.fortunately our idea, our scheme is a flexible one.
the basic scheme is very strong but it can adapt while still
remaining strong.
由于客户的原因，你会不会去反复修改你的设计？
我会去尽量满足客户的需求，但这不意味着妥协。我对有创造性的推进更感冒。当然了客户对他想要的，以及细节方面的敲定总是会有自己的想法，但同时他们也会想要一些期待以外的，超越他们所能想到的新东西。许多客户想通过一个新类型的房子来获取一种新的生活方式。如果他们喜欢的话，我会给出一些超越他们需求的提议，这样项目就可以开始了。如果他们不喜欢的话，那就终止。幸运的是，我们的想法，我们的方案是很灵活能变通的。最初的方案很有冲击力，但也能做到适应（客户）而同时保持很强的冲击力。
who would you like to design something for?
an art museum or some kind of museum would be very
interesting for me, or an art gallery and a photo studio.
I like to design medical facilities. in 2006 I have worked for
a mental hospital,developing the children's center for
psychic rehabilitation.right now we are designing a library.
你想为谁做设计？
我很感兴趣艺术博物馆或者别的些博物馆，或者画廊，摄影工作室。我喜欢设计医疗设施之类的，06年我给一个精神病医院的儿童精神康复中心做过设计，现在我们在设计一个图书馆。
is there any architect from the past, you appreciate a lot?
louis kahn, le corbusier, mies van der rohe...
and of course michelangelo.
I also like the architecture designed by nobody, for example
gothic cathedrals.
以前的建筑师中有没有谁是你很喜欢的
康，柯布，密斯...当然还有米开朗基罗。
我也很喜欢无名氏设计的建筑，像哥特教堂。
and those still working / contemporary architects?
I love frank gehry because his architecture is like a second
nature,like a jungle. something beyond artificial things,
it's amazing.
还活跃着的建筑师呢？
盖里，因为他的建筑就像是第二自然，犹如丛林，超越了人造物，很让人惊叹。
what advice would you give to the young?
I'm still a young architect.
so yeah um...
enjoying things is very important.
对于年轻人有没有建议？
我也还是个年轻建筑师，所以...嗯，享受乐趣是很重要的。
what are you afraid of regarding the future?
I think I we have to be very serious about the change
in climate and the situation of nature. I think that it is a
great opportunity for us to rethink about
the modern age culture of controlling everything.
we have to change that kind of whole super controlling
situation.for example air conditioning - when we use it we
close and shut out nature and we are limited in the space
we have. the artificial machine of the air conditioning is
controlling our space and separating each other.
instead we might be able to live together and use a kind of
natural power to create a more comfortable space.humans
should adapt a bit more, rather than control.
对于未来会有什么担心的吗
我想我们会很认真的对待气候异常和自然问题。我想对于我们来说这是个很好的时机去反思“掌控自然”之类的现代主义文明。我们不要再抱着想掌控一切的想法了。比方说空调，当我们在使用空调时，我们会关上门窗，与自然隔离开来，却被限制在自己的空间里。空调控制了我们与这个空间，并且（把空间）一个个都相互分裂开来。相反地，我们应该要生活在一个天空下，使用自然的力量去创造更为舒适的空间。相比掌控一切，人类更要应该学会的是适应。
